deal. nielsen known for television. arbitron known for radio. liz: we have one of the big homebuilder, homebuilders are rising again after positive news on housing, real sentiment here. nicole: saw sentiment up again for homebuilders in 8th month in a row, isn't seen that for six years -- haven't seen that for six years. housing has been getting better. up over 350% in 52 weeks, what an unbelievable stocks. a lot of names hit 52 week highs today. david: finally apple didn't have a huge pop but significant increase for apple. many people thought it was -- [inaudible] -- not so today. nicole: everybody is loading the google maps back on to apple. liz: yeah i know people who were up at 2:00 in the morning reloading google maps. let's go with the markets. what a day for the bulls. dow jones industrials not at the highs of the session. we were up more than 127 points

at one point, but 114 point gain. two day of triple digit moves here. the russell had a nice percentage move up 1 1/2%. the nasdaq better by a full 43 points. david: we have been talking about the up moves. liz is wearing green in honor of the -- she saw it coming. we do have some red on the screen. gold down significantly today. almost $25 an ounce. ending the day at 1673. coming up, we have a very big bull on gold who says now is the time to get in, while some people are saying it could go down to 1200 an ounce. liz: media stocks surging the new highs today. discovery communications, all-time high. comcast also hitting all-time high. time warner, getting a big boost here, 10 1/2 year high. big move. david: overall technology is today's top performing s&p sector. let's take a look at the etf xlk

shares closing up more than 1% on this etf. we are closing watching oracle of course ready to break in with the tech giant's earnings, any second they happen, keep it right here over the next hour. liz: we can't forget the housing market. it's showing signs of strength and homebuilder hovnanian has been flexing its muscles, the stock as david mentioned up more than 300% this year. chairman and ceo of hovnanian looks ahead to what 2013 might hold. david: last time he was here he said buy into the stock. he was right. also thinking up picking up gold? -- thinking of picking up gold? before you do, there are reports that gold could be heading down to $1200 an ounce next year. liz: first we will tell you what drove the markets today with today's data down load. stocks pushing higher on hints of a fiscal cliff deal. this time it was more inching to the middle on both sides. all three major indices posting gains for the second day in a row. we have technology and energy as

today's top performing sectors while consumer staples and telecoms lagged. see the euro? huge move here, $1.32 and change, rising to 7 1/2 month high versus the dollar on speculation that u.s. lawmakers will reach a deal on the fiscal cliff. why that makes the euro so much stronger, you know, the euro hit intraday high of 1.3238, it is up 1.6% so far this month alone against the greenback. homebuilder confidence jumping to its highest level in more than six and a half years in december. the national association of homebuilder index posting its climbing 2 points to 47 this , month. a lot of optimism today. david: and we have the numbers from oracle. they are out. adam shapiro has been parsing through he numbers. adam: investors will be pleased with oracle. revenue of 9.1 billion, up 3%. and the street was expecting 9.02 billion. one thing i want to tell you from the press release, they are

saying that cloud software subscriptions revenues were up 17% to 2.4 billion. and that's one of the things that investors are really paying attention to as oracle goes into that space. david: that is one of the things they are pushing most heavily into. adam, hank you very much. let's get reacts from the chicago mercantile exchange. larry, what do you think of these oracle numbers? >> i'm not surprised. i think management has done a really good job at managing expectations over the past couple weeks. they are the leader in enterprise application. they have pockets of great database business. and their sales application is basically very very good. there's a big risk to the market right now and to oracle specifically with the foreign currency exposure that they had, people were worried that the euro had rallied 4% since the last guidance period, so with that in mind, people were very very modest with their expectations, so this is great news. liz: you know, that's an excellent point larry. because a clot of people just

think -- because a lot of people just think oracle is a u.s. company, but a lot of companies have seen themselves get swamped because they didn't hedge their foreign currency risk. mcdonald's in the past has been bitten by this, there are a lot of other companies. sap is out there scratching away big-time and their stock has hit highs consistently, and then you have sales force.com, which right now i'm looking at that, almost appears to get a nice boost from the halo effect of oracle right now. >> yeah, no, i'm glad you brought that up, because they are on their heels. and that's why i think oracle deserves to be maybe a 39 or 40 dollar stock a year from now, if it wasn't for sap or sales force, it would be much higher than that. right now the immediate competition is microsoft and i bshb m -- ibm and that's a good thing for oracle because oracle is better than they are in specifically what they do. david: it was a nice significant rally whenever you have triple digit gains on the dow even

though it was off its highs, it is a good day. is the market sensing that there is is a deal being worked out inside the beltway and that we may be off to the races come 2013? >> yeah, david, i think ttat ping-pong match is over, and i think whatever that compromise ends up eing, it is going to be a 1% drag to gdp. i think that's what the market is implying, and we're just making up for lost time. i mean, keep in mind, back in september, we were willing to pay 14 times multiple for the s&p 500. that would put us at 1500. so right now we're less than 2 1/2% away from the all-time high -- not all time, year to date high, if a deal does get done, like the market is implying, i have no doubt that the market will hit 1475, by the end of the year. liz: wow. that's a bullish call here. wait till you hear what our next guests say. stand by and listen in. david: we will check in with him at the close of the s&p futures at about 15 past the hour. liz: let's bring in the market panel. schaffer's investment research senior technical strategist is

joining us. also joining us is center state bank chief investment officer. joe, you heard a very bullish call frommlarry. you are saying you expect little or no growth in 2013. why? >> the economy's underlying growth rate is about 1 1/2 to maybe 2 percent. the possibility clearly exists with consumers holding back because savings rates are so low, with businesses holding back, business capital spending and hiring because of the uncertainty surrounding the fiscal cliff, that i think the down side exists more than the upside for growth in the first half of the year. we're not -- it's not our forecast that we're going to not grow. our forecast is we will grow about 1 1/2%. but clearly the risk is there surrounding the fiscal cliff. david: ryan, you have spent a lot of time looking a at options contracts. you think you found some key indicators that tell you that a big rally is m co -- is coming, explain. >> that's right david. we've had a real good move,

especially the last few days. can it continue? if you look at short interest, it's as high right now as it was back in june. remember june big downturn and big up move. a lot of shorts. as those shorts cover their bets, the market will go higher. that's very bullish. david: let me stop you right there because of the rally we've had the past couple of days if it continues, we could have a lot of short covering and that will lift the market, a lot of money is going to come into the market? >> it's cliche to say, but that's right. so many bearish bets are out there. if you follow the news, you would never know the market is as strong as it is. following prices has been more advantageous. we look at various put to call ratios, our work says hedge fund institutions have drastically missed this rally. we think they are extremely underexposed. that's another reason they can play catch up. they can keep going in the near trend. liz: joe, as cautious you might be about actual growth, you're still investing. show us the money. tell us where you like to invest and how right now.

>> sure. well, liz, we think the market -- we think maybe high single digit gain for the year. the primary reason being than thanom -- that nominal gdp growth will be --. we would say go with companies that are doing a great job turning out investment income. let's go with a company like pepsico that has a3.1% dividend yield. they have grown their dividend 27% over the past four years. they are expected to grow at about 15% the next four years. a great place to be. totally different sector teva pharmaceuticals the largest generic pharmaceutical company in the world. they have grown their dividend payout 63% over the past four years, looking to grow it at about 57%. liz: go with those guys that consistently raise the dividend quarter after quarter. >> absolutely.

and in fact with pepsi, they have raised their dividend 40 years in a row. david: ryan, housing, we're about to talk to hovnanian right here. he will be talking about his particular company but you have some housing picks. you think the housing boom is here to stay at least for the next couple of years, starting with lennar, why do you like lennar right now? >> that's right david. i was on with you guys december 15th last year, i said i liked housi housing, now a year later they have had a big rally. you talk about lennar, looking at the option activity, there's a lot of bearish puts coming on lennar, also increasing short interest. what does that mean? that tells us again a lot of bearish bets, climbing that wall of worry, still a lot of monny on the side line. lennar looks good. look at longer term chart of a lot of housing stocks, they are still nowhere near the highs from 5, 6 years ago. that tells us yes as good news keeps coming, that negativity upward pricing action, housing

could perform. liz: do you like maybe some of the materials guys? >> absolutely. i think housing is a great place to be invested in today. but i think the most attractive place to be today, liz, is in pipeline companies. you can go into master limited partners of pipeline companies and get distribution yields in the 7 to 8 percent range. they are going to grow that distribution about 6% annually. liz: will that be doing a different tax strategy after the first of the year regardless? >> always a concern about that, but if they put a corporate income tax on these companies as opposed to treating them as partnerships, that's going to raise three to four hours worth of the budget deficit on an annual basis. it's just not worth it. david: finally ryan the consumer seems to be a little more confident. that doesn't always track in terms of retail sales. you'd go in now even before you get the figures from the holiday season; right? >> that's right. look at the xrt, the large retail etf, up 20% year to date.

if you look at the news and negativity out there, people would never know that. a lot of these names, abercrombie & fitch is one we like. recently good earnings. goes higher. a lot of shorts, a lot of bearish puts coming in. the xrt specifically a lot of bearishness on also in the option world. contrarian indicator, it goes higher, people don't like it, that's what we're looking for, stick with retail and betting on the u.s. consumer. david: look at the options markets folks for clues on how to bet in equities. thank you guys, good stuff. >> thank you. david: debt talks continue as the clock keeps ticking to possible tax hikes for everybody. a lot of plans out there. rich edson has been on top of every made being made inside the beltway. find out what's in the plans and the hit that you could be taking. liz: plus take a look at this, hovnanian, hov, up nearly 300% this year, actually more than that. can it keep rising at this pace as housing continues to recover?

we have the ceo and president of hovnanian enterprises. what does 2013 going to look like? better than that? david: let's hope. [ male announcer ] this is amy. amy likes to invest inhe market. she also likes to ride her bike. she knows the potential for making or losing money can pop up anytime. that's why she trades with the leader in mobile trading.

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david: s&p futures are closing right now. let's go back to the cme group. larry as we ended the trading day, we saw a little drop off. did that continue into the futures? >> it did. we see a little bit of drop-off in the futures. keep in mind, front and center is the fiscal cliff. people are squaring their positions, going home so they can sleep at night. traders are really looking at things underneath the seat cushions other than the fiscal cliff. they are looking at hey there's no hard landing in china. europe didn't fall off the map. the u.s. didn't go into recession. we didn't have worldwide food

inflation. maybe there's a reason to be constructively bullish on this market. liz: wasn't 1442 supposed to be that support level? >> it is a support level. below that though 1430. that is a key level. i think people are squaring up because hey, we don't know what will happen overnight, but by in large, the market is pricing in that something will get accomplished, but hey, if i was standing in that pit right now, i'd go home flat as well but you'd never know. david: i won't tell those guys about the asteroid that's planning to hit at 12:00 midnight. but that's a whole other story. larry, great to see you. liz: david you just panicked half of our viewers. oracle beat on the top and bottom line. let's head back to nicole on the floor of the nyse. nicole: i have been talking with traders taking a look at the stock in the afterhours. it is a winner. we're watching oracle on the move to the upside, beat on both top and bottom line. they said that they have seen demand for web-based services.

they have been doing a lot of acquisitions. we know larry ellison has been working on that, doingns in ord accelerate in the cloud computing area. that's an area that actually did well for the company. another thing we should note is accelerated dividend payouts for three quarters starting on december 21st like so many companies that we have seen. these are some of the action that we have seen here for oracle now after the bell coming out with numbers that beat the street on both the top and bottom line. so it's a good one. back to you. david: thank you. well the back and forth inside the beltway continues. the white house makinggsome concessions on taxes from the original offer, but then rejecting speaker boehner's plan b proposal. liz: what are the main sticking points? listen, this news flow is changing moment by moment. joining us now from the nation's capitol, fox business's rich edson maneuvering all of the flows here. what are you hearing, rich? rich: well the difference is basically few hundred billion dollars in spending cuts, tax increases and how much to raise

the debt ceiling. they have come pretty far away in the last few days. the president wants 300 billion dollars more in tax revenue than speaker boehner. the speaker's willing to allow a tax rate hike on those earning more than a million dollars. the president wants to exempt only those making less than $400,000. boehner wants a trillion in spending cuts. take away interest savings and the white house is at about 930 billion dollars in spending cuts. also have to counter with 80 billion dollars in additional spending. so speaker boehner is calling for a back-up plan, considering the two sides are apart that would shield most taxpayers from next month's scheduled tax increase. >> i believe it's important that we protect as many american taxpayers as we can. and our plan b would protect american taxpayers who make a million dollars or less and have all of their current rates extended. >> everyone should understand boehner's proposal will not pass the senate.

>> even as a last ditch -- >> not as a last ditch. rich: house republicans gather at the top of the hour for a special meeting about this proposal. that's where leader begins selling the back-up plan. democrats and republicans say they plan continue bipartisan talks to reach a larger comprehensive debt deal, but there's a little bit of a way to go. back to you. david: rich, it was interesting listening to senator harry reid dismiss that plan when in fact back in may pelosi came out in a letter specifically to speaker boehner saying, quote, democrats believe the tax cuts for those earning over a million dollars a year should expire and that we should use the resulting revenues to pay down the deficit. well, that's the boehner plan. nancy pelosi was on board back in may. what happened? rich: minority leader pelosi said she introduced that plan to quote smoke out republicans on taxes. she says republicans passed on that plan six months ago and the president took his case to the american people for those making

more than $250,000 a year, those folks should get a tax increase and that voters supported that position by re-electing the president. i've got to say david democrats especially from states like california and new york, senator schumer had a simple over in the senate, where those states and certain cities in those states, $250,000 a year, catches a lot more taxpayers than it does elsewhere. david: rich edson great reporting all day rich. thank you very much. rich: thanks. liz: we still don't know what the new year will bring for you and your taxes and your tax filing. that could make life difficult for tax preparers. up next, the ceo of liberty tax, john hewitt on the fiscal cliff, how he's advising clients and why tax refunds could actually be delayed. david: how many different possibilities could there be? he will tell you. plus how about a big mac on christmas? why is mcdonald's expecting its biggest day ever on christmas day? that story is coming up in today's speed read. ♪

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david: time for a quick speed read of some of the day's other headlines. first up the gap is opening its first stand alone stores in brazil. the first ones are expected to open in the fall of 2013. with more to follow. photo sharing service instagram got explaining to do, which is owned by facebook saying it will have more to share following criticism of its user agreement which allows it to share photos in connection with paid or sponsored content. mcdonald's could be open for christmas. an internal memo leaked points out the opportunity for profit following the millions brought

in on thanksgiving. christmas could add over 70 million dollars to the fourth quarter. travellers love tokyo, a new survey from trip advisors says tokyo has the cleanest streets, the best public transport and it is the safest city. new york was number one for shopping. and toyota getting hit with another safety fine. the national highway traffic safety administration slapping the automaker with a 17.4 million dollars fine for delaying a safety recall of 2010 lexus rx 350 s and rx 450 h models. that's today's speed read. liz? liz: well done. washington even during that speed read is still trying to find some type of solution to avoid the potential tax hikes and spending cuts set to hit at the end of this year. so look, taxes are coming april 15th. how can you the taxpayer prepare for whatever type of decision comes out of the beltway? joining me now is john hewitt, yes, of course from the former jackson hewitt. he's chairman and ceo now of liberty tax, one of the largest

tax preparation businesses. oh, boy, a lot of people want to hear from you because perhaps there's a low-grade panic going on in their hearts and minds right now,,thinking what should i be doing in advance to limit my tax bill that i might get? can you even know when we don't know the landscape? >> it's hard to tell. and it's the most confusing it's been in my 43 year career. there are certain things we can do and certain situations. you need to check with your tax advisor. we eastbound p help people -- we even help people that aren't our customers so you can call and give you advice for your particular situation. liz: let's break out the most common situations. i know everybody is different, but there any way to minimize what could be coming, the pain that could be coming for tax bills? >> it is difficult to tell. if we go over the fiscal cliff, i think the biggest danger, more than the tax situation is the economy. and one thing that isn't talked a lot about is refunds are going to be later than they have been in 25 years. the irs is going to delay refunds just because they postponed electronic filing start date. in addition to that, they are

still trying to put the final touches on the last forms waiting for the changes. some people who file in january may have to wait till february. liz: yes, they are waiting, the irs has to wait, and at some point there are the early birds who want -- i know some of you are out there thinking, but i want to get started now. >> exactly. there are 10 or 20 million people that will file typically by january 31st. they are used to getting their refunds in january. they are not going to get them until february. it is going to affect the whole economy. liz: not everybody procrastinates? >> exactly. about 50% offthe people do wait until last minute. but 50% want their money quickly. liz: okay. so tax refunds could be delayed. is there anything people can do to make sure they get theirs on time? some people depend on that refund. >> exactly. there's really nothing they can do. the irs has made a decision to postpone electronic filing. and it's going to be worse if congress doesn't come to a resolution quickly. liz: you're tax preparers -- you're a franchise business, your tax preparers are they standing by waiting to go to a

quicky college to quickly learn the changes that are coming in? >> exactly. we will have a webinar and train our 30,000 preparers across the country. >> everybody is on standby. if it were to hit in the next 48 hours, would you start then and there? >> we will be ready within 24 hours of getting the information. >> how long does it take to train an individual? >> typically less than eight hours a year. >> many taxpayers have been confused and turn to companies like yours. do you expect this to help your business? you are one of the fastest growing tax prepares. it is a silver lining for you guys. >> it is. change drives people to preparers. there's going to be millions of questions. they are going to call us. it is good for our business. liz: what type of resolution would you as a business owner and ceo really like to see? >> first of all, i would like to solve the tax situation. but also lending to small

businesses really dried up. and the number of franchises of all kind in the united states, mcdonald's, subway, has declined over the next few years. that needs to get back on pace. we need to find lending for small business. as everyone says small business are the job creators. liz: in the end you have started many businesses. you have been successful. you have a gold standard name in tax preparedness. is this still the best nation to start a business? >> it still is but declining every year. liz: on that note -- i don't want to end on that note. let's see if we can get some optimism going. good to see you john. thank you. >> thank you liz. liz: liberty tax ceo. david? david: optimism is his business is going up because of all the confusion. homebuilder confidence is rising. that's good news for the 8th straight month. up next we have one of the biggest homebuilders out there. ara hovnanian, chairman and ceo of hovnanian enterprises, the stock is up over 350% this year. and later this hour, you may be

tempted to buy gold on the dip. what if we told you gold price is going down to $1200 an ounce. golden opportunities or dead weight? we debate coming up. copd makes it hard to breathe, but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now i can be in the scene. advair is clinally proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both a an-inflammory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help improve your lung function all day. vair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chce of pneonia. advair may increase your risk of osteoporosis and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition

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today's market drivers. drove right straight up. all three major indices moving higher for the second day in a row. dow just short of session highs. the dow was up 127 points. this marks the 7th time the dow jones industrials ends the day within the green in just the past 10 trading days. the price of regular gallon of gasoline dropping nine 1/2 cents over the past week, bringing the fuel to the lowest level this year. decreased seasonal demand and rising supplies resulted in the dip. did you see precious metals? platinum and palladium seeing red. palladium which helps make catalytic converters convert dropped 1%. platinum shaving off 1% bringing it to the lowest settlement in two weeks. you saw gold today. a big drop there. david: homebuilder confidence reaching the highest level since 2006. this is helping to boost home-building stocks. liz: one homebuilder is up 350% just over the past

year. could this boost of confidence send their stock even higher. let's ask the chairman and president of hovnanian enterprise, ara hovnanian. put this in perspective. everything is relative. you used to be $7 billion market cap. now you're 750 million. not like you totally recovered. >> we're in the early innings of this recovery. our market cap used to be 4 1/2 billion. we're still under a billion. we have a long way to go but we're very confident and feel good about the momentum right now. david: let's get into basics supply and demand. supply of housing gone way, way down. number of contractors, i think we can put up the full screen if we can. we used to have 1.6 million housing contractors in the united states. that was at the boom of the marquette -- market. look where it has fallen. look at recent fall in housing that is huge drop. that means far fewers houses are being built s that why

prices are going up? >> it absolutely supply and demand on used and existing home side. that supply is coming down. on the new side, home builders, many public builders went out of business and many private builders have not been able to get capital and are out of the marketplace. that's an unfortunate thing fore surviving, those with good capital structure that means a lot of opportunity on the recovery. liz: as the darwinian play shaking itself out and you are among the fittest surviving so far, can we get a prediction for 2013. >> boy, let me put it in perexecutive. housing starts averaged 1.6 million per year for decades. last in, this downturnnwe got down to 500,000 starts. was a million six average. 500,000. everybody is excited today because it is about the 850,000 plus or minus starts. that's good. it has been a big recovery. if i had to venture a guess

i would say we'll approach a million starts this year in 2013. a big up tick from where we have been the last few years but, still, well below what's average over the last few decades. david: let's get a little more specific into hovnanian for a second. you have very successfully refinanced a lot of your debt load. >> yes. david: how important has been that freeing up of capital for you? >> it's been very important. it has done two things. it reduced interest costs 17 million a year. that is certainly helpful we finance in better environment, lower rates but it is also important it extended our maturity ladder. we had a big chhnk of debt due in 2016. we extended that out to 2020, 2021. that gives us a lot of runway to have this recovery maintain moan tum. david: what are you doing with the capital? >> we're reinvesting it. we're buying land all over the country. we've been buying it and

stepped up a little more. there is a lot of opportunities out there. liz: we yesterday dolly lenz, prudential elliman, high end realtor, done billions over the years. she is seeing massive bottleneck by the end of the year because people are so scared about tax implications if we don't have a fiscal cliff deal, either way. are you seeing that same bottleneck in sales? >> i can't say we're seeing. we and all public builders reporting quarter over quarter improvement we reported our quarter recently, up 44% in dollar volume over the same quarter last year so it is really building up but i don't think it is a year-end phenomenon. i think we're building momentum. people are feeling good about the housing market in general and when you combine these record low interest rates, 3 1/2% for a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage, our parents didn't have it that low. liz: do you thank ben bernanke? >> i do. i think he has done a fabulous job making sure the

economy --. david: although he has been hurting savers. interest rates are so low people on fixed income are not getting any kind of return. which leads me to wonder whether a lot of them are actually buying real estate as an investment. do you see more investment-related real estate right now? >> not on the new home front but a helpful phenomenon on the existing home resale. foreclosures and short sales, we are seeing some investors there that are buying, both mom-and-pop investors and sophisticated hedge fund money and private equity money. buying the foreclosed homes and then turning them around and renting them and taking a long term perspective. not a flip. i think that has been helpful to the overall market. david: ara hovnanian. if you listen this buy a year ago when he came on the stock would be doing well you would have made 350%. congratulations. >> hopefully more to come. liz: happy holidays for the new year. >> thank you. liz: thieves could be stealing your money from your bank account via cyberspace. we have details coming up. you may not even notice.

that's why you have to watch this. david: a lot of gold bugs buying up the metal on a huge dip today but if you buy now are you in danger of catching a falling golden knife? one report says gold could fall to $1200 an ounce by the end of the next year. coming up, is gold a safe bet or could it become a weighty albatross in your portfolio. ♪ .

>> i'm adam shapiro with your fox business brief. cerberus capital selling its stake in gunmaker freedom group after friday's tragedy at sandy hook in connecticut. they acquired firearms making bushmaster in 2006 merging it with other gun companies to create freedom group. they manufacture the ar-15 rifle believed to have been used by the shooter.

conocophillips selling its algerian unit for $7.5 billion. shares of the company closed up over 1% today on that news. mcdonald's is reportedly urging its franchise owners to stay open for christmas. that's according to a memo leaked from the fast-food giant obtained by advertising age. mickey d's wants to capitalize on stellar sales it recorded by staying open on thanksgiving. that's the latest from the fox business network, giving you the power to prosper. d#: 1-800-345-2550 this morning, i'm going to trade in hong kong. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 after that, it's on to gmany. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 then tonight, i'm trading 9500 miles away in japan. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 with the new global account from schwab, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 as if i'm right there. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and i'm in total control because i can trade tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 directly online in 12 marketets in their local currencies. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 i use their global research to get an edge.

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ssencer, great to see you. i've known you long enough you're right more often than you're wrong but let me paint out the gold $1200 scenario for a second and get your reaction. this is how it works. they say one, fiscal cliff doesn't happen. looks like they may have resolved something today. lord knows. two hedge fund cashes. a lot of hedge fund cash on the sidelines. once the fiscal cliff subside that money will come into the stock market. three, that will lead the fed to be less money printing than they have been. so they will pull back. four, china and india will unload a lot of their gold because they're going to want to have the cash to build their infrastructure. and finally president obama will realize the tax bonanza from shell oil and shell gas and therefore lift off the regs of those two things to the point where we have a lot more oil and gas coming. all those things bring us down to gold at 1200. how do you react? >> wow, that is really incredible run-down. there ii one interesting

thing i think will knock a hole in the whole theory that the fed has tied interest rate policy to the amount of unemployment that we have. it has to be at 6.5%. and what that means is, that you're boeing to get low interest rates that are very bullish for gold and will lead to inflation coming down the road, endless money printing. doesn't have anything to do with the other parts that we mentioned here with, you know, with china and all the rest. it he is going to be tied to getting jobs created. none of the those things that the author mentioned create any jobs. david: one thing that might create jobs is all this money on the sidelines. if that money does begin to come in. and again, the one thing that the fed has assured us that interest rates are going to be low at least for the first part of next year. which means nobody will get returns. they will have to go somewhere. probably they go into the market. that might revise it. give a lot more capital to companies to expand and maybe hire people. >> i think it very well could generate a little bit

of growth for the economy. i also think as hedge funds bring in cash, running one myself, gold is an investment allocation that makes a lot of sense for hedge funds. i think the gold theory could really benefit as money flows into the market. you see that from individual investors as well once they get more discretionary income and they are fearful of their dollar losing value, they will start buying into things like gold and silver, in order to for gold to get to $1200 an you would have to have deflationary collapse which would be catastrophic. i think the lowest i can imagine gold being 1550 at the bottom. i think we'll be visiting 2,000 in 2013. david: by the way i don't buy into this theory. i got to say what this theory doesn't take into account what japan decided to do is print even more money than we're printing right now, more yen. there is a whole lot of money printing going on all over the world. there are a couple of price targets out. you mentioned one, 1550 would be the lowest of the low. i hear 1662, 1640 an ounce.

those two price points are very important to buy in. why? >> i think what you see on the chart of gold you see it going side ways in a trading range. this is really beneficial for gold because a lot of times what happens you see prices go up and then see them consolidate and see them break out of that range. we've been in that type of trend for gold, if you look historically more than 10 years. gold has been a very safe investment but you do have some volatile ranges you can see gold earlier this year, saw it move more than $100 an ounce in a single day. i think once you get further down you start seeing how much buying interest there is but i think that we'll start seeing buying interest in the 1600s. i don't know that we'll make it down to 1640 especially as we get this fiscal cliff resolved, i think it will be the biggest y2k thing ever. i don't think the fiscal cliff will be a big deal at all and we'll get more confidence in the economy and see gold prices go

higher. david: meanwhile other commodities, copper directly related to the gdp growth around the world. how do you see copper going? >> i don't have optimistic feeling toward copper. i don't think it is something to sell. i don't think it is something to buy. i look at something like rbob gasoline. gasoline prices are lowest they have been in a year. we'll start moving seasonally strong periods. buy gasoline, it's cheap right now. not necessarily copper. david: spencer, we have you on tape, 1550 is the lowest possible price will gold will go in 2013. we'll bring you in if it goes lower, do you mind? >> absolutely, bring me in. >> spencer, great to see you. >> thank you. liz: let's get to banks. they are facing a pretty credible threat from cyber season. your money could be at risk. will you even notice though? adam shapiro making sure you do. he's got the alarming details next. ♪

liz: your dollars that you

thought were safe in banks they may not be safe. hackers are close to launching an attack on a number of u.s. financial firms. david: this is really scary stuff. they're targeting your money. adam shapiro joining us with the details of this credible threat. adam, tell us about it. >> it is a creditable threat according to mcafee labs. the security firm saw a posting in september from a cyber criminal in russia who goes by the name, thief in law. that is how it would translate into english. claiming they're going to be launching a trojan horse kind of virus that allows hem to use password and access to your bank accounts to transfer small amounts of money. if you do it on large enough scale you can make millions. according to mcafee they tested variants of this trojan virus since 2007 and goten away with transferring roughly $5 million. at least that is whht the hackers are claiming. i spoke to cedric layton an expert in this field, he will be on "money" with melissa francis in a few minutes on ways to protect

yourself. you should check your bank account daily for any bizarre activity. he said banks need to ramp up security procedures. keep in mind while there are 30 institution in the united states being targeted. it will start perhaps this spring. that's when they say the attack will begin. they are going after high net worth indivduals. if you ask john boehner that is someone worth over million dollars, if you ask the president it is someone over $250,000 a year. back to you. david: adam shapiro. rich edson reported house speaker john boehner introducing plan b as he called it, legislation to raise taxes on those earning a million dollars or more. this after president obama raised his threshold for topping income earners to 400,000. taxes are set to rise for everybody if some kind of a deal isn't reached by the end. year. liz: take it off the desk. you don't like the high taxes? in france, well move to belgium. french actor gerard d pechlt

l pardieu says is doing that. he will welcome anyone from france who thinks taxes are way too enter us -- onerous who wants to follow in the actor's shoes to escape the high taxes the foreign minister says it is france's own fault if its citizens are leaving and they should accept the consequences, i agree. time to go off the desk. shaquille o'neal launching his own line of vodka. according to the "new york post" it will be called love shaq. luvshaq. our crew is giving it thumbs down. it might taste well. it will hit it next year. cocoa nut flavored vodka is sugar and gluten free it will have the nba star with giant wings. let's hope move into vodka successful than the rap career. liz: pitbull has its own vodka. i would rather that have.

there is carmel vodka and cookly flavored vodka. not a vodka drinker. would you do that? david: i like good potato russian vodka. put it in the freezer. good stuff. liz: we'll see what melissa francis likes. she is next with "money"